Coyote Contest Good or Bad?

[longbow]

I would go along with the no hunting when they have young. I want them thinned out but that is just cruel. IMHO.

[NH Hunter]

Should we stop fishing tournaments to. Because they hurt feelings to. Seems like some guys are not sure what team there on.

I'm well aware of what team I'm on. Let me ask you this Mike. When you shoot a deer. You walk over to it to find it still thrashing, eyes have fear in them.... do you put another bullet in that deer, or do you just save the bullet because it's dying anyway? I'll tell you what I do. I put the deer out of it's misery for a "quick and humane kill" That's a term hunters use all the time right? We use it as a justification. So how quick and humane is a den full of coyote pups starving to death? Maybe it's not me that's confused with "what team" I'm on, but I actually believe the "generic terms" that are thrown around regularly. To me they are actually a code of morals, and ethics, not just some bullshit I use to justify to a non hunter why what I do isn't wrong.

[Mikejd]

Somewhere along the way here I think you lost tract of the post. It's about coyote contests. I have not seen a coyote contest take place during pup seasons (march-may). So going off on humane topics is not what we were talking about its how does coyote contests make us look. I believe most hunters have the similar beliefs as you in the way we take out quarry. Last I checked these coyote contests don't take place with a hatchet.

[Steve J]

If you go to Vermont Digger than ran an article on this subject yesterday> Apparently one contest has been canceled but another one has been started and they talk about all the negativity around this topic.

[VTHunter08]

I have bitten my tongue on this for a day or so, but I like a good debate :) In my eyes this is all about opinions and agendas. Vermont digger and most other "news" agency are liberal based and use their access to the public as their soap box to push their agenda. I would have thought after Trump won that they'd realize very few "normal" people listen to them.

Back to the main topic. This topic is a non topic. Yes we all have our opinion on the subject but in all reality it doesn't really matter b/c just as one of the more vocal members on this topic has said in other threads we aren't state wildlife biologist and we don't truly know what's really going on with the different populations. The state obviously feels that we have a strong enough of a population to warrant and open season, and no limit on coyotes. Even during pup season. If it is an open season and no limit who are we to voice our opinion on how people choose to harvest them? My opinion is if they're within the rules and doing nothing wrong then we as hunters should support them as a whole even if we don't necessarily agree on how they're doing it.

Believe it or not the state wont let us completely hunt out a species. If the population starts to get low the state will do something about it (probably create a season and sell tags) If the anti's like this we could try this and watch the population boom and hear them cry about not being able to keep cats anymore . . . . .

[Vtbuck223]

VtHunter basically beat me to it.

I realized as this conversation progressed that I knew very little about the coyote derby's in Vermont...so I did some quick research. And... basically everything that I could readily find was sourced from anti-hunting groups. All of the media coverage has been instigated by the anti-hunting groups and disseminated through outlets sympathetic to their cause. This is what they do and this is how they do it! Coyote derby's today, leg hold traps tomorrow, bear baiting in Maine on Sunday, cruelty to otters on Monday, outrage around trapping of Lynx on Tuesday, cruelty of bear dogs on Wednesday, must have anti hunting representation on the board on Thursday....and on and on! This is what they do but we don't have to play their game!

This conversation has strayed and many of the nuanced arguments don't stand up when seriously examined from a management perspective. As an example...of course we humans have always encouraged propagation of some species over others for our own benefit and we continue to do so today in many different ways. The idea that it is wrong to protect one species from another so that you can harvest the more desirable one is silly. Although the French apparently love eel...we generally don't look at Lamprey as favorably as Lake Trout. In many waters there are few limits and closed season on pickerel and within the same waters strict protections for other fish. There are endless examples of this. (And just in case you suggest that lampreys are an “invasive” and therefore different…here is a quote from the cooperative lamprey project of NY, VT, US F&W, & DEC: “Recent genetic studies indicate that the sea lamprey may be native to Lake Champlain…..Whether the sea lamprey is native to Lake Champlain or not, it is having detrimental impacts on the Lake Champlain fisheries, ecosystem, and human residents that are very significant.”)

Does anyone here even know a single person who hunts coyotes in May? (not talking about shooting them to protect chickens on a homestead..etc) That is a non issue…again right out the anti’s playbook...it's called "obfuscation".There are lots of animals that have no closed season...because there is no need to have a closed season...coyotes are rightly in this category and their success underscores the point.

I have never and don't ever plan on attending a derby of any kind.... fishing, coyote or otherwise. I don't even know anyone who has participated in a coyote derby... but... to even mildly suggest that people who participate in a derby must be "crazed coyote haters" is right out the anti's playbook.

And lastly...I'm personally careful not to use terms like "cruel" in association with legal hunting and fishing activities. (Cruel definition: "willfully causing pain or suffering to others". synonyms: brutal, savage, inhuman, barbaric, barbarous, brutish, bloodthirsty, murderous, vicious, sadistic, wicked, evil, fiendish, diabolical, monstrous, abominable) That is right out of the anti's playbook. Be careful how you characterize our freedoms and remember that the anti's already apply such terms to the activities that you choose to participate in and hold so dear.

[Mikejd]

VtHunter basically beat me to it.

I realized as this conversation progressed that I knew very little about the coyote derby's in Vermont...so I did some quick research. And... basically everything that I could readily find was sourced from anti-hunting groups. All of the media coverage has been instigated by the anti-hunting groups and disseminated through outlets sympathetic to their cause. This is what they do and this is how they do it! Coyote derby's today, leg hold traps tomorrow, bear baiting in Maine on Sunday, cruelty to otters on Monday, outrage around trapping of Lynx on Tuesday, cruelty of bear dogs on Wednesday, must have anti hunting representation on the board on Thursday....and on and on! This is what they do but we don't have to play their game!

This conversation has strayed and many of the nuanced arguments don't stand up when seriously examined from a management perspective. As an example...of course we humans have always encouraged propagation of some species over others for our own benefit and we continue to do so today in many different ways. The idea that it is wrong to protect one species from another so that you can harvest the more desirable one is silly. Although the French apparently love eel...we generally don't look at Lamprey as favorably as Lake Trout. In many waters there are few limits and closed season on pickerel and within the same waters strict protections for other fish. There are endless examples of this. (And just in case you suggest that lampreys are an “invasive” and therefore different…here is a quote from the cooperative lamprey project of NY, VT, US F&W, & DEC: “Recent genetic studies indicate that the sea lamprey may be native to Lake Champlain…..Whether the sea lamprey is native to Lake Champlain or not, it is having detrimental impacts on the Lake Champlain fisheries, ecosystem, and human residents that are very significant.”)

Does anyone here even know a single person who hunts coyotes in May? (not talking about shooting them to protect chickens on a homestead..etc) That is a non issue…again right out the anti’s playbook...it's called "obfuscation".There are lots of animals that have no closed season...because there is no need to have a closed season...coyotes are rightly in this category and their success underscores the point.

I have never and don't ever plan on attending a derby of any kind.... fishing, coyote or otherwise. I don't even know anyone who has participated in a coyote derby... but... to even mildly suggest that people who participate in a derby must be "crazed coyote haters" is right out the anti's playbook.

And lastly...I'm personally careful not to use terms like "cruel" in association with legal hunting and fishing activities. (Cruel definition: "willfully causing pain or suffering to others". synonyms: brutal, savage, inhuman, barbaric, barbarous, brutish, bloodthirsty, murderous, vicious, sadistic, wicked, evil, fiendish, diabolical, monstrous, abominable) That is right out of the anti's playbook. Be careful how you characterize our freedoms and remember that the anti's already apply such terms to the activities that you choose to participate in and hold so dear.

Well said.
I have read that in order to affect the coyote population we would have to.remove 70% of the population every year.
I know the coyote derby in NY usually take about 80-90 dogs. Far cry from 70%. I have never participated myself as I am not that good a coyote hunter.

[mbVT]

Thread closed- it has strayed off topic and began to travel down the road of insults.

Keep discussions civil and on topic.